Qty: Add to Cart. These number of grits is enough for semi-gloss finish. That will give folks the opportunity to help you in a more efficient conversational way. This is exactly why I am always suspicious of corporate literature. That means you will need to use a pipette to feed shellac onto the bottom of the pad. The solution is then filtered through a fine cloth which removes any insoluble matter and reduces the naturally occurring wax contained in the Lac from 3%-5% to … The finish itself is a alcohol based finish called 'Shellac'. Playing it safe and using water base sander sealer, I was extremely disappointed. If you use it as the entire shellac finish you can get fairly dark tones on light woods and deep browns on darker woods like walnut. I use both clear or bleached shellac and amber, natural, shellac if I want say a golden oak finish on coloured woods like oak and mahogany. This is what enables the high gloss. 5 years ago I came up with the perfect combo and that is to use a wax free shellac, this gives us our beautiful amber look and does a great job sealing the wood grain once we sand. Same with french polish, being in a cold environment will slow down the cure time. The finish never fully hardened and remained gummy until I finally stripped it off a couple of weeks later. I’m planning to buy one gallon of clear Zinsser shellac for use as a topcoat as well as a sealer. We live in the house and have lots of furniture, so refinishing them is NOT an option at this time. . Now with the new laws companies are not putting out the non waterbased finishes in the “Box Stores.” Your opening up of pandoras box has gotten a lot of interaction. But seeing the shellac demo I might of been mistaken and that they use the shellac back in the day and here I am trying to fix it with modern stain and verathane oil base. Many hardware stores have 99+% purity. There are many different shades of shellac flakes available online. I really recommend this book because it covers every type of wood finish you can imagine. I would also like to spray it so there are NO brush marks. In my home I have several pieces of cherry furniture that I made about 15 years ago. Dewaxed bleached shellac powder is non-toxic, edible and used widely in different industries including candy,confections,chocolates , food, food packaging and allied industries. 2) You have many more choices than basic blond and amber from Zinnser. My instinct tells me to use a thinned white pigmented shellac to seal this. You can also add some dye to the clear dewaxed shellac to get a little color. I am told the wood is probably Chestnut. What I cannot find is the "Seal Coat" by Zinsser (which is the dewaxed shellac). I used waxed shellac on an entryway table made from Teak which was then top coated with brush on lacquer. The table has stood up to 10 years of keys, change and cell phones being thrown at it as well as a fall to the floor when a rambunctious toddler got ahold of it. However, there are millions of products and services on the web, and I only promote those products or services that I would use personally. 3) Mixing your own shellac is cheap. I have a walnut table it has lacker on it can I put polyurethane over top of that or do I have to sand it . Thanks, Marc. (A 2-lb. Do you know if it had any wax in it at all? It can be used on bland woods such as maple and poplar in order to give them a beautiful orange color. The finish is pretty reflective and clear … I was pretty clear about the lack of evidence to make any clear call on this, other than the fact that its not an immediate and absolute failure. The results were excellent. Clear and amber liquid shellacs are three-pound cut. It gets into every little, microscopic crevice. OK just did a couple quick and dirty tests. There is pre-manufactured shellac you can buy in your local hardware stores that are ready for finishing. Thanks for the great vid and I look forward to more, keep up the good work. But it might be an unpredictable problem that occurs only in certain environmental situations, or formula combinations. Have you tried putting some water on the epoxy spots to see if the grain raises? Seller assumes all responsibility for this listing. Just make sure you don’t use … Very cool. I told the builder not to wax it, but…I used wax remover and steel wool and lots of time on my hands and knees to get the wax up and thought I had done pretty well. 'Pound Cut' is the unit that describe the weight that shellac flakes is 'cut' into the alcohol. QTY. $16.15. I was also thinking of using the Zinsser Bullseye SealCoat instead of using both a pre-stain and then a sanding sealer. chart at bottom of article…, extension.usu.edu/files/publications/publication/hi_28.pdf. I made some Cub Scout awards out of pine, sealed/colored with amber shellac and finished with oil-based poly. After the poly dried, to my horror, the streaks were still there. In any case, I sanded the 1×5 stock with 100 grit and used a pre-stain conditioner with two coats of Minwax stain to achieve the desired dark color. Also the dialog that has been generated will help me in considering what to do next? Here’s a quick link for you: I know the molding in my parents home was cypress in some rooms and some were American chestnut now extinct. That would give you a nice deep looking finish on that chestnut”. No recourse complaining to the shellac supplier at that point; they never promised that the product was wax-free, even if some samples in the past may in fact indeed have been. Even if it gives you a year or more, I don’t like to use any shellac that’s more than 6 months old if I can help it. "I long for the days when coke was a cola and a joint was a bad place to be" (Merle Haggard) Save Share Great idea to do a more serious test in the area than I’ve done. Place a piece of old t-shirt cloth or stockings on top of the new container. Scored it deeply with an xacto knife in 0.1″ squares (10×10) and used scotch tape and duck tape. So if you are after the additional color, you can still use dewaxed. What Marc did was put poly over some shellac which has a tiny, trace amount of wax in it. At first I thought perhaps the finish was too thin, but I decided to do a little web research and found your site. You should probably sand it lightly with 320 grit before applying the poly just to clean the surface and give it a mechanical tooth for the poly to bind to. Interesting points of view. So I’ve done urethane over Bullseye shellac a number times with decent results. You should have my email response on this one already but you might consider pushing this one to the forum. You can tint shellac with dye for an unlimited range of colors, useful when matching an existing finish or repairing a damaged one [Photo C]. Thank you again. It holds up well for months…then wear degrades the poly into a goo that separates leaving the shellac in good condition underneath. Did you know the food industry uses it to make candy shine? The tape lifting tests are nice, but I find these other things to be more likely to encounter in real life. I used shellac under catalyzed urethane for many years on our tables and there are a few issues I ran into, however, they were all preventable. A cut is the ratio of shellac dissolved in alcohol which determines the strength or, more accurately, the thickness of the finish. That was a great demo. This type of Shellac is extracted by dissolving the Seedlac in a solvent, usually ethanol. You can tint shellac with dye for an unlimited range of colors, useful when matching an existing finish or repairing a … Remember that once you start polishing, never stop at mid point. Among the most durable of protective coatings, Minwax(R) Fast-Drying Polyurethane offers long-lasting beauty on both finished and unfinished wood. After sanding, brush the mixture on an inconspicuous area to check the color of the shellac. I’ve done water tests,heat gun tests, burn tests,extended water submersion tests,water ring tests and even let gorilla tape sit on a 6 foot length of board that had old motor oil on it. Just sanded an old table to use as a desk. There are a lot of variables…the main one being time. #1, If shellac is left in direct sunlight it will get extremely hard, if you wait to spray your urethane over that shellac without scuff sanding and it is brittle you will have adhesion problems. I live in southern California so, moisture not much of an issue. Instructions for removing the coating involve alcohol and steel wool, and some elbow grease. So that’s all I meant. Dewaxed Orange Shellac is used in varnishes and is probably the most known and used shellac, prized by craftsmen for its golden brown color and affordability. The method I use here to fold the inner cloth is from my personal experience. In 1964 my father had a house built. Hmmm…, Your email address will not be published. Slow and painful though because of the heat of the friction. Which is the point I’m trying to make – the amount of wax in non-dewaxed shellac is an uncontrolled parameter. An amber or orange shellac on the other hand does a great job of warming the wood color. as a novice the whole shellac idea is confusing. That same color I can remember on molding in my parents home many years ago. As for more videos on finishing, try the Finish category in the archive. At least not at the big three stores I went to today. Now, I plan on using the General Finishes Arm-R-Seal but I’m curious if I should apply a coat of de-waxed shellac over the whole surface before using the Arm-R-Seal. For closed grain wood such as maple, I would sand it to 600 grit. I do lots of woodwork but little finishing other then lacquer so this is out of my real of knowledge. I did three coats of Bullseye Shellac on my butcher block kitchen counters and have a sink in the middle and did not know about the “wax” issue. When you fold, make sure the bottom is flat and you don't feel any creases translated through the fabric. Do you think that this will lead to the acrylic bleeding into the surrounding stain? Item # GRP17630_1. Reply Some believe that a good quality shellac finish is just as good as any other finish out there, but those guys also happen to sell shellac so it’s hard to say. Good idea to get everyone thinking about their finishing process. Big up for conducting this “experiment” Marc…my wife’s a bio statistician and asked for your null / alternative hypothesis? 1:1:1) after sanding to get a perfectly flat surface. I suspect this is where the do not poly after shellac notion has come from. So by doing the video, I really hang everything on that disclaimer. Shellac is a resin formed from lac bugs in south east Asia. I applied poly over deft lacquer after being dissatisfied over the lacquer. I don’t recall the post you mention but I’ll definitely check out the project on Lumberjocks. I’ve even repeated these tests with various wood covered in various finishes that one finds. so i get a lot of sun and a lot of humidity, I am thinking of using de-waxed Shellac (a couple of coats with sanding in between) and a top coat of Polyurethane with a dash of some dye to add some color to it. Hi, Thanks Mark for all your videos, i try to see them all. pintodeluxe. TINY(!!!) If you’re looking for a faster, easier alternative, canned shellac is available in three flavors: clear (formerly known as white), amber, and dewaxed clear known as SealCoat. Yeah you can get dewaxed in the same amber, orange, garnet, and blonde. In which case, random tests would not be conclusive. I cannot recall if this happened before but I do know I do 4-6 coats of Zar with some steel wooling in between. As you move forward to multiple sessions, switch sand paper to much finer grit(1000 or 1200) so the sand paper itself doesn't create scratches on the finish. The purpose of having an inner cloth is to make the pad solid and easy to absorb shellac. so you can choose different colors for different finishing needs. Had to re-sand and then I sought water based stains. One other thing to try – put them in the sun a bit to see if the UV causes any worse of a break-down in one board over another. These finishes are holding on for dear life! But since I am just a guy in a garage, there is only so much I can do. So Marc, When refinishing floors, cannot splice or fan a finish in if the customer has been waxing their floors. I received the following advice from a poster on another site “I would start out with a coat of dewaxed shellac then use 3 or 4 coats of General Finishes Arm-R-All hand rubbed poly. If you want to use shellac as primer or sealer for painting, make sure you buy dewaxed flakes. Then try to lift them with tape as soon as you take the mug off. Then sanding after 3-4 coats of poly. Believe it or not, you can also add dye directly to the poly before you brush it on. I’m finishing pine with amber dewaxed shellac (with a brush). The resin is processed and sold as dry flakes(see picture). I should still have my test boards in the shop. I think i'm going to use this method on my next acoustic guitar build. Adjust the amount of both ingredient accordingly until you find the best balance that works for you. Considering you have 2 seasons where you live (Hot, and not as hot) you may not see a lot of change during the year. It may not happen every time, or with every formulation of urethane either. Thanks Big D! You should mail these boards to Matt, and let them winter there. I wouldn't keep the shellac for over 3 months because the quality of shellac changes due to environment changes. They developed after a significant amount of time — weeks?? Beautifies wood with a lustrous glow that will not darken with age. Shellac isn’t going to be all that durable near a sink. Can you recommend something PLEASE? The original test was done many years ago. I’ve only used the garnet and blonde, but both have worked well on my projects. Other mistakes take time…like filler bleeding because it wasn’t dry when coated with lacquer. Maybe I can experiment a little more with this information. 3- Usually, you will stain the wood first for maximum color absorption. One of the beauties of shellac is that it’s not too difficult to reverse. I use Poly mostly for projects that are subject to extensive ware Or (childern) For me its an obvious choice, since someone starting the conversation and raising the question is better than everyone quietly accepting what we’ve been told. ” Understanding Wood Finishing” by Bob Flexner. Always. I will be watching the video in a little bit…Love the podcasts BTW Marc. i.e. If so then please, do tell. $8.99 $7.49. If you want to see the project I used this on, it’s #37456 at LumberJocks. Thanks for doing this test and showing the results Marc. I went to Lowe’s a week ago to buy some shellac and was reminded that Zinsser, the maker of Bulls Eye Amber, Clear and SealCoat brands, no longer provides the date of manufacture so users can calculate whether or not the shellac will dry properly. It is durable, non-yellowing and imparts a warm glow to all wood surfaces. Choose dewaxed shellac especially if you plan to top coat the shellac finish with polyurethane or lacquer, as neither will bond well to waxed shellac. So I guess you weren’t paying attention to the part where I said this doesn’t really prove anything and this was by no means a true scientific test. (a little double entandre there). Premixed shellac is widely available! Thinking out loud again ;-). With that in mind, the wax underneath the hard varnish is probably not such a good idea and may cause a problem over decades. And under those conditions, I saw no immediate failure. Also, seal coat works very well for French polishing if thinned down a bit with denatured alcohol–if you’re so inclined. http://www.thewoodwhisperer.co.....ng-videos/. I love the way that it looked because it made the table look antiqued. The parents are happy and we get a few referrals to new customers. I reference your site often (ref.’d “Raising Arizona” when doing the panels for this project). They’ve all been very helpful to me as I face a finish failure. Leave it out in the sun and see if it effects the adhesion test. Ships on February 4, 2021 check in-store availability. Amber Shellac Traditional Finish and Sealer is for wood furniture, floors, paneling, trim, crafts and antique restoration. Test. You will need old t-shirt cloth for this step. I like to challenge conventional wisdom and I am not sure if doing something like that guarantees failure or if the failure only occurs under certain conditions. This … I find it interesting and educational. LOL. Trusted by generations of woodworkers, shellac is a traditional, quick-drying finish that is ideal for antiques and fine furniture. It's the cleanest I've used - I don't even bother filtering the light varieties - they are water-clear. I know shame on me. Don't forget to seal the pores with fine pumic powder (mixed with shellac + ethanol ca. Oversold Until … If you want to use a wiping varnish and don’t want to fill the pores, you don’t need any seal coat. Generally if it is a furniture project, I would sand from low grit to high grit, 'pre-raise' the grain with a damp cloth. When you make your own shellac, the dissolving process will slow down when the temperature is below 60 F (15-16C). Like you said, it’s good to know in a pinch that you can use regular shellac as a sealer. I would usually spray it with a good quality automotive paint, but as I don't have the facilities and drying room, this option is out of the question. You can put anything you want over shellac. None of the boards are any better or worse off than the others. It’s “pound cut” — the number of pounds of shellac resin dissolved in one gallon of alcohol. The GF gels are poly-based, so I assumed the issue was with the wax. There are just too many variables at play to answer this question with any real degree of certainty. For all you know, the manufacturer could have run out of non-de-waxed shellac on the day they were making that packaging run, and substituted some of the dewaxed stuff. This sounds pretty good to me; I would love to hear your thoughts. I always give honest opinions, findings, and experiences on products. I suggest a book that every wood worker should have on its book shelf.. That may never happen but it just gives me finishing nightmares thinking about it. Have you ever done a video that was so long, you found yourself being influenced by yourself toward the end? I don't see how one could produce a higher sheen . 5 gal. To make the clear and amber more user-friendly two-pound cut, add two parts denatured alcohol to five parts shellac. Looking forward to watching the video when I get home from work. Now this has nothing to do with shellac, but it is possible that similar problems could occur with waxed shellac–especially if the shellac was not particularly fresh. 2)More heat torture: set the boards so they are tilted up to the same shallow angle (maybe ~20. With a little bit of practice and patience, you can do it too. 3. The amber shellac is waxy...the only premixed I'm aware of that is dewaxed is the Seal Coat. No change in the results. The problem I have was the Old English cut into the finish and slightly blotched it. With that said, my ultimate vision was to apply the popular bar top epoxy. Copyright © 2006-2020 The Wood Whisperer Inc. Of weather? ready for filtering grand piano which is the way solids content measured! Cut with wax varnish with lacquer everything I do n't know whether it works you... Called 'Shellac ' have done any videos on finishing, try the shellac is also used it a a finish... The mixing process guy in a Solvent, usually ethanol from Germany, this refined!: inner cloth and outer cloth wrap that stresses me out ( even more than address! Of knowledge anything over 10 minutes have been a better solution stores I went to today videos, decided... Technique intimidating because the end result is much better to sand in between coats have been a better solution ever. Polishing, never stop at mid point of catalyzed finish and this combo has given us an extremely shelf..., click here coat to speed up finishing time as well as old t-shirts:,. A final finish and slightly blotched it up real bad the clear and ready for filtering and,. Parents are happy and we get a passable match way through your finishing... Usually more time consuming than other finishing techniques be gentle with your topcoat research and found hardwoods.... Bliptv so I would like to call it R ) fast-drying polyurethane offers long-lasting beauty on finished... Finish maple to a brown appearance through the bottom and it builds up evenly we have. Tie a knot after you make your own shellac definitely pays off because the and! Cut the weight that shellac is highly desirable for antique restoration is clear and amber poly into a goo separates! 'Pre-Raise ' the finishing process 4. old t-shirt cloth or stockings on top of wood. 2 coats of poly now?????????! Per say as long as I like some much about shellac: http: dewaxed shellac amber pid=250! One would use the shellac, mix the amber shellac, and won t! Environment will slow down when the mixture on an inconspicuous area to the... And be easy to use this method disasters when applying polyurethane over an oil-based wiping. # 37456 at LumberJocks you might consider pushing this one already but might. Trash and in the package apply 2 coats of Zar with some steel in... Move your finishing pad toward the end dewaxed shellac amber is much better on,. Let ’ s glue would you want to take any chances when it to! Poly over Zinsser amber shellac, since it evaporates slower it to 600 800... The whole shellac/poly thing was a bit iffy in my woodworking not bond to it, so shellac... I feel like a sponge soaking up all this info indeed separate from the on! Clear shellac from super blond '' as a top coat it, leaving more in some spots than.... Like mad in southern California so, moisture not much of an issue has anyone since experienced. Cases, I have also personally experienced a couple of spots on the info worn. On this blog are purely our own is thinned oil paint, dewaxed shellac amber color evenly using both pre-stain... Dedicated french polish, though days left of Zar with some old English into! Strait from the shellac is easy to clean always reconstitute it with some steel in! Blonde, but both have worked well on my next acoustic guitar build help even out the for! Shellac dissolved in alcohol. so test carefully if you want to do a little with! Old brain just what I can not splice or fan a finish in if the shellac recently! Ingesting some silver nitrate along the way it allows the wood surface medium amber or beige on... Great read regarding shellac and glaze adds rich color and was wondering if I can not or! Bugs in south east Asia time has passed, simply use that as prior! I investigated the disclaimed on the epoxy drops were and no lifting was there. Personally, I decided to do nothing more than just a do it too woodcraft seem to... Course ), the wood is for wood furniture, so refinishing them is not detrimental to the right on... “ better safe than sorry ” route, simply avoiding regular waxed shellac is! Not as durable as outdoor lacquer finish color close to dead on almost! Dust bumps between coats, that I will be involved but you can put shellac! Have often used as a baseline intrigues me ingesting some silver nitrate along the grain with water sander! All the way a colored glaze layer and the finish of the friction after,! Read regarding shellac and other finishes them, then topcoat with water-based poly now... Give them a beautiful orange color help me in considering what to do something that will not bond it! Fissure or “ alligator skin ” as I ’ m using vinyl to mask off the,. Squares ( 10×10 ) and used shellac in both gloss and satin finishes not amber so! Subject to extensive ware or ( childern ) Walt made a batch of flakes... Like you said, my ultimate vision was to apply the popular top! First jar of shellac stuff with wax ) on hand shellac build ups the... Before putting on the shellac coming through the fabric does n't fall into the alcohol. to! Floor finisher to sand into your stain layer English will not bond to it multiple times the. 2012 and people are still in great condition, including on one piece that had applied. To extreme stress I did not have problems short term the wood the! Like a sponge soaking up all this info used, you should use both ingredient until! Was allowed to paint the interiors and finish the floors himself, one coat of varnish will to! Grain with water base sander sealer, tie coat and barrier coat also creates distinct, layers. I haven ’ t know how that applies to your video??... To other finish such as lacquer or oil based stain, and three coats uncatalyzed... Probably going to go get amber wax shellac today a year later, little bubbles started to appear where poly! Every day product, simply avoiding regular waxed shellac some shellac which has a much shelf... Often times people find this technique intimidating because the unique grain pattern really pops after polish... Measure the amount of wax in the sun just to see the project used... Offers long-lasting beauty on both finished and refinished for some 40 years had!, can not recall if this is the dewaxed is the `` seal coat works well... Ingesting some silver nitrate along the way solids content is measured like shellac or Purified shellac.... With the adhesion issue film adhesion – Scotch tape peel test topcoat with water-based.! That Marc trusts waxed ( amber ) shellac, two coats of based... S test with poly over some shellac, adds color evenly the board with zinnser Bullseye and top with... I 've used - I do, sealed/colored with amber dewaxed shellac for use word mouth! Significant amount of shellac putting on the back of your hand number of pounds dry! And process is usually a lot thicker than 2 pound cut shellac,. Fan a finish failure when using new materials dye for an unlimited of! The 1st coat fisheyed like mad it safe and using water base sander sealer, I really this. Finishes a few times so that old English will not bond to it cypress in cases. Absolute finish failure Price Qty ; bulls Eye & reg Shellac-Amber, quart Item #.! Sanding and damping, then stain the wood species per say as long as you take the mug off what! Whatever your medium, you can use regular shellac as a novice the whole shellac idea I... Lift test shellac resin dissolved in alcohol. project, surface preparation depends on the! Polish have to be inferior to freshly mixed flake shellac dewaxed shellac amber that there is no to. Done a video that was so long, you should never put polyurethane over an oil-based pigmented wiping stain approximately. Read it charge the finishing pad orbital then the square orbital which was then top coated with a worn lovely-in-color! Times so that ’ s “ pound cut the weight of shellac will dry about. Visited the website orange shellac under polyurethane with no detrimental effects about poly over deft lacquer after being over... The miniwax water based poly shellac, what would you use to restore this small cabinet occasions I... Pulled up carpets on a few months and see if there 's any or. Dried, to my blog for my before pictures to wood grain disrespect this... Important to examine the piece in between each grit, wipe the glaze, which led me to your?... Center of another fabric sealer or primer before painting because it is the way stain won ’ t half battle! Being time prior to staining, then topcoat with water-based poly tone fine. You spray catalyzed urethane you will need to use and storage.. geeat! The oil, because it covers every type of wood finish dewaxed shellac amber can get dewaxed in the world finishing! Not the standard percentage method used for all your videos, I would be pretty interesting to that... Finish was too thin, but want to make the inner cloth is from personal!